"considering the "use reinforcements from turfs" idea, one thing that could be done would be making attacks stop being a paid thing (or keep it proportional to the amount of members employed in the war) and make each gang have a "population", a number that increases over time and decreases when members die during wars (or any time) I think that would help make the wars more meaningful. Do you think that would work? "
- That's what i said but with simple words ahah
I think attacks still need to be paid, keeping it proporcional yes, because you're investing and risking money/members when attacking, and it would keep things more interesting and sort of and "economy" system for each gang to choose what to do (focus on attacking turfs with weaker members at start or upgrading the ones they have) this way there's room for some other features that could be added for more income/extra members for example.
I agree with the population method, since reinforcements are a fixed number (1/3) based on the number of members left to spawn during a war, population would be the new "reinforcements" in this case, where more members = more reinforcements, removing the current reinforcement system.
About that growing number, what do you have in mind? Like for each # of ticks it would increase?
The way i see it, it would go only one way: When you conquer/upgrade a turf theres a min number of members you get from that turf (if lvl 0 gives you 15, lets say you start with 10 after conquer/buying/etc, being 10 the current pop value and 15 the max value for that turf), "population" variable would increase until it eaches its max (using the timetoupgrade ticks).
This would be really nice so you cant just rush to war if you have the money, you'll need the numbers too.
The problem i see with that is, if there's no other feature to grow your numbers (see below), there might not be enough for wars/defending after calling some backups in a row ahah
There's also the problem of determine from which turf that ped died.
Because of that i think population should only decrease during wars and backup-calls, and reducing it equaly by all turfs.
Example: You have 3 turfs and choose 30 members to fight, if you lose 10 members on that war they will decrease from all turfs equaly (or between the high lvl ones).(WarMembersLost/currentTurfsOwned=ValueDecreased)
"Oh, and besides the spawning adjustments, how do you think wars could be more fun?"
- Maybe add somekind of objectives instead of just kill numbers, much like the Shadow of War game where you have to capture a certain number of zones to win.
If a "Main turf" was an option, you could force gangs to only attack normal turfs and have to conquer them before attacking the main turf of that gang (that main would be alot stronger and hard) and make that one more special to conquer, with new win conditions maybe.
Extra:
Turfs provide Income, Members and Member Slots, each upgrade provides more from each.
Each turfs has its own income, number of current members and available slots, according to each lvl.
Income reduction is calculated by MTP-CTP=IncRedu, if IncRedu is 0 or higher theres no income reduction, but if its lower (CTP higher than MTP) it will reduce X$ per extra solt (Example: IncRedu is -10, each extra slot costs 100$, it will decrease income by 1000$). After a turf upgrade if MTP = CTP the redu is calculated again and there's no income reduction again.
currentTurfPopulation (CTP) - the number of members you currently have (this is the one that increases/decreases over time).
This will ONLY increase to the MTP value, then it stops until MTP increases. But it can decrease to 0 if you lose all of you're members fast enough (by war or back-up calls).
maxTurfPopulation (MTP) - number of max members you can have in that turf before you start having reduced income (also known as member slots). Only turf upgrade can change this value.
currentTurfIncome - This controls the income from the current turf, affected by turf upgrades and expansions.
Note: Population for fighting in wars is calculated from the total CTP from all turfs, not MTP (last post idea for attack options).
Defensive mode will only use the CTP of the current turf being attacked.
All the next costs money, proporcional and not decided ofc.
- "Automatic recruting system for this turf"- Here you can instantly recruit more members (fills free member slots) for that turf.
If you dont have free slots it wont work.
Usefull if you want to get members fast instead of waiting for overtime increase.
- "Expand member slots for this turf"- This will give room for more members without upgrading this turf. (Can only be used when CTP = MTP)
It gives you more slots for members, not fill them.
Note: This could have a variable of his own, because if you increase CTP it means you will have more members available instead of just slots (MTP), but MTP should only be changed with turf upgrade so this is just theorical for now. Another option is to merge AutoRecruit with this, and it seems way more simple and clean than the first one.
My final tought about this is to merge them but leave AutoRecruit, so AR only fills the free slots and Expand gives +10 CTP and fills too. If it happens to lose those 10 extra members (you cant Expand again until upgrade) you can use AR to buy them back and not have 10 empty slots costing income (since until you upgrade your turf they wont generate).
Attention!
Expand option is permanent and WILL decrease income for that turf instantly, because you'll have more slot members in that turf (CTP) than MTP allows, reducing income by a certain value (per member above MTP) because its an Expansion, not a turf upgrade.
You can only have CTP higher than MTP by 10 (so only 1 Expand in a row), this is to prevent overpopulation on low lvl turfs. You can expand again after upgrading turf and having CTP = MTP.
Example: CTP 20 MTP 20, you can Expand, now you have CTP 30 and MTP 20, you will need to upgrade before buying the next one (depending on the nr of slots that each upgrade gives).
You will only "generate" more members if CTP is lower than MTP.
Expand increases CTP +10 slots and can only be used when CTP=MTP, so you wont get those members over time, you need to use AutoRecruit or recruit them from the streets. In this scenario, you'll have 10 more members but if you lose 15 you will only get back 5, unless you upgrade your turf (increasing MTP for that turf).
To counter that income reduction you need to upgrade your turf until MTP is higher or equal to CTP.
This system lets you have up to 10 more members than the turf can allow, but at the cost of income (used for everything in the mod) and the risk of not getting back those members if you lose them before upgrading that turf.
So you can have a bigger army than you can afford. Kinda High risk-High reward stuff here.
All the values are examples and not accurate, this was just to put the idea to a test and to show how it would work (roughly). All of this would need testing and toughts about ofc.
"Currently, the mod considers the total reinforcements for each gang and sets the max spawn for each one accordingly: the gang with more reinforcements should have more spawned members."
- I see, about that i experienced some stuff, mostly one of the gangs obliterating the other one, the point of wars should be to let the player decide how strong will the attack be (therefore, Light/Medium/Large/Massive attack options) and to have fun! There's no fun in one gang just dominates, what's the point of 150+ members vs 60 if there's no equilibrium between them? It will be just stand still and pop heads ahah
The idea here is to limit the number of each gang members spawned and making reinforcements the key. You can still have that massive spawn (like 50vs50) and experience wars with they're full potencial by changing the SML value if you want, but in this case if one of the gangs have equal or less than 50 members, they all spawn and there's no reinforcements (40 members, 50 can spawn, all 40 spawn so, members left = 0/3 = 0 reinforcements).
Does the mod considers ALL the turf levels to each war? If a gang have 3 turfs, i attack one of them, do they defend with all the reinforcements combined from each turf or just the one im attacking? And if im defending?
In my last post the general idea was to replace the active Total Reinforcements for each gang calculation and replace it with the one i said.
Imagine SML 30 (Max 30 peds at the same time, so 30/2 =15 members for each gang at max on the map) your attacking, you choose Light Attack with 30 of your members vs 40 of them (30 kills to lose, 40 kills to win) when the war starts there's 15 members spawning from each gang no matter how massive the attack/defense power (number of members) is, aside backup drivers/para-peds there wont be more than that coming from respawn points at once, after that the total reinforcements for each gang is calculated based on the rest of the members, every reinforcement would be of 3 members at once spawning, so Gang 1 (your's) gets a max of 5 reinforcements (30-15=15/3=5) and Gang 2 gets 8 (40-15=25/3=8), what happens now is the war it self, you kill peds, they kill your peds etc etc, for each 3 members that die (for both sides) there's a reinforce of 3 members, for example, you lose 3 members, reinforce kicks in and spawns 3 guys (still have the 15 members max per gang and 30 total) but now you only have 4 reinforcements left instead of 5, same thing for the other gang. Now, what happens to you when you use all of you're reinforcements? Lets see, you use all of you 5, so you spawned 15 members (plus the 15 that spawned at the start, you used you're full army of 30 that you chose to attack with), so now you dont have reinforcements, and about your enemy? Well they used 5 aswell, but they still have 3 more to use so, now all you have is 15 guys (plus some drivers/para that the mod spawned for you) against 15 of them + 3 reinforcements of 3 members, this is where that +10 members from the defensive gang helps, because now the attackers have no backup and defenders still have 9 more to come help. This way makes it VITAL to upgrade members stats and choose you're battles.
"the gang with more reinforcements should have more spawned members", they still have more spawned members, but limited (by Half the SML value) so the war can be more enjoyable and each gang do his best.
The war ends the same way as before, but now you feel like you're in a war, because there's always people coming and shooting at you and not just target practice ahah
I saw at one of you're changelogs that upgrading a turf gives you more reinforcements, in this case upgrading a turf would instead rise the total number of members that each turf gives you (for example: 2 turfs, one lvl 0 another lvl 1, lvl 0 gives you 10 and lvl 1 gives 15) you have 25 members to go to war turfs and since the numbers of reinforcements is based on the number of members you will have more reinforcements aswell (thus that number advantage) but this time you feel those extra members from that turf upgrade instead of random and massive ped spawns ahah.
backup drivers and para-peds are a bless and a curse, because they can grow numbers yes, but if they die they still count for the war kills, and they spawn for both sides (i think), so the war can end before any of the gangs uses all their reinforcements.
"Hmm, during one of those wars that was a 30v30 and your gang had 25 spawned members against their 5, if your members died, do you think it would stabilize around 15 spawned members for each gang? "
- Honestly, at this moment, i dont think it can even try to stabilize ahah
But no, i think not, the mod feels like it just spawns members until it reaches the SML value and stops, regardless of how many of each gang is on the map, if AI gang loses more members first the mod could spawn (from the reinforcements) from my gang and they would have no chance, and that's "killing" the wars for me. Most of my tests with SML 30 they would just keep coming or not come at all and be an empty war with my gang sitting there waiting or 3 times AI gang members than mine.
"Disabling backup calls during wars could really help hehe, but I think one could still exploit the system by calling backups before starting a war in order to start with more members around, even if it's a 10v100 situation hehe. How do you think we could work around that? Having a "flexible" spawn limit could help, I think, but I feel it kinda goes against the idea of "limit" hehe"
- That's a tricky one. Maybe unspawn all current spawned gang members from the gangs when the war starts, but idk how that would go.
Since the wars would be more even and enjoyable that would be someone that have no intention of playing the mod, and when you capture a turf, lets say of lvl 5, if you dont have the upgrade to conquer turfs and start with it at higher than 0 there's no point in attacking with exploit, and with that exploit it would be a massive waste of money, unless they changed the values from the .xml file, and even there i dont know if its worth it, but that's on them ahah.
The point is, we can try and limit those exploits, but again, this is a mod for those that want to enjoy it, not a MP warfare between player's for turfs. That would be really fun to play ahaha. Everyone can play arround the mods limitations, even with other mods, depends if they want to play it or not at all.
That "flexible" spawn limit its the SML, you can change it to suit your needs.
Extra ideas:
War! Everyone that plays this mod wants to kill stuff, to attack and conquer turfs, so this makes War and Turf the most important features in this mod.
Turfs are everything, if you dont have money or other mods that you can play to give like 100k+ (like Bank Robbery, etc), turfs means more income, number of members availables, safe zones, etc.
About turf levels, maybe when attacking the mod gets the members from ALL of your turfs together(see bellow) for the player to choose from, but defending you should only have the number of members that this turf gives (if the turf being attack gives you 20 members you would only defend with that army) giving even more importance to upgrade turf/members, and since you're the human on the game and you only lose when you die, you can always try and bring it back. You'll lose some but 90% of the times you win turfs... Makes the mod more enjoyable this way, i think.
About the force of the attack (light/med/large/massive) i belive that attacks should be about controled turfs, if you only have 1 turf, you can only attack with you're full army (because you only have 1) but if you have more, lets say 6, you can choose how many members come to fight, so if all 6 are lvl 0 and each one gives 15 for example you would have 90 members available, you can choose from 1 turf (15), Half turfs (45) or all turfs (90), using the same cost system that its now with the current system but tweaked of course.
This way if one of those 6 turfs was lvl 5, the mod would place that turf as the "Attack with 1 turf" option as the default, because its the higher lvl turf you have, the same for the "Half turfs" option, those half turfs would be the higher lvls you have, making this more of a tactical choice between upgrade all turfs at once or focus more at one (like a main turf) and deciding if you want a more agressive or defensive playstyle.
Note: If this was active, AI gangs with fewer turfs (at the start of the mod) would need some buff at their turfs, like starting with 2 turfs at lvl 2 and gangs with more turfs have lower lvl turfs, because even with lvl 0 turfs, if you have many of them its still a pretty dam large army, you have more attack power but less defensive power (until its upgraded ofc).
Player's starting turf would be something like lvl 2 too (changeable), or there's no chance for those immersion gamers like me that start with 0 or 1000$ and a melee or 1 pistol ahah
@lucasvinbr I hope you want to develop this mod further, or this will be just another annoying post.
About the last topic, i've done some calcs and what i think it wouldn't work properly, because if there's a limit of reinforcements (and they are like a fixed number of spawned members) the gang with more members at war would run out faster of reinforcements making possible a no-end war because there's no more members to kill (i tested on paper with spawnedMemberLimit at 30 and with the 15 max spawned members from each gang).
So if we dont take the "faster reinforcement" ideia, it could be something like this:
If max reinforcements for each gang would be 1/3 of the total number of gang members left to spawn and only spawn 3 at a time, in a war of 30 vs 56, SML is 30, so each gang spawns 15 at start, 30-15=15 for G1 and 56-15=41 for G2, so 15/3=5 and 41/3=13 making max reinforce for G1 a max of 5, 3 members spawn when 3 die and for G2 a max of 13 reinforcements of 3, this way the number of members fighting will be the same number of kills need to win/lose the war, keeping the constant 15 members from each gang, more realistic and the no-end wars wouldn't be a problem. Reinforce would end the way it is right now, war ends = no more backups (except from the post-war value for winning gang). This would make Health/Armor/Accuracy from members have ALOT more impact, since a smaller gang could kill more from the big one and win even with less members and backup.
Note: In this tought the calculations are for spawned peds (from respawn points), drivers/para-peds are just "extra" and they dont count for max reinforce per gang.
spawnedMemberLimit- could be only applied to peds that appears during the war from respawn points (if this is already true ignore it)
numSpawnsReservedForCarsDuringWars- instead of min spawned cars it could be the max that spawn as an extra to help during the war, giving the player a choice if they want more or less help coming aside reinforce and if they dont mind having more peds than spawnedMemberLimit allows.
Within this ideia, you shouldn't be able to call backupdrivers/para-peds during wars (the ones that cost money from the menu) since they spawn during wars, and if its 30vs56 you shouldn't have more than that during wars (excluding the "extra" members). Well, that's another idea ahah.
Im no expert by any means, this is all just random toughts from someone that never made a mod. Im an enthusiast at this enviroment and your mod called my attention, i belive it has alot of potencial.
@lucasvinbr Np :D Btw some feedback and toughts if you want to check it out:
- I see that sometimes the AI backup drivers (from freemode and war) just stay where they are if too far from the action/player (or just can't drive at all cause they're stuck somewhere where they only needed to reverse or i drive by them and they dont turn, stuff like that), i need to shoot at them or get closer (on foot, with a car i need to stop and sometimes exit) for them to actual do something. I tryed to make it spawn closer to me but it still hapens when you're at war (mostly from AI gangs).
The same happens with peds when you're in a vehicle far from them, if i stay inside they will stay where they are but if i exit the vehicle they come running no matter how far (and since they will try and pull you off the car if they're close, makes sense they run towards you to close the gap, mostly with only melee weapons). I tested without fire arms (just melee/fists) so maybe its diferent with weapons idk.
- Some peds spawn points dont make sense in war, sometimes the respawn points (the first ones that the mod makes) from both gangs are on top of each other, literaly 5 feet away (happens alot at turfs on highways) so its just a massacre ahaha. I know you can change the spawn for you're gang, but with AI it's another story, because if they spawn too close a war can end in just a few seconds, or too far and they'll only spawn like 5/6 and stop and i need to run over my guys so they can spawn or chase the "lifeless" drivers stuck somewhere or just frozen at the middle of the road.
- About this spawn topic, there's and option where you can change the max members "alive" at the same time (spawnedMemberLimit , default 30), changing this value will spawn more/less members during the war, but not equaly between both gangs.From what i tested and saw, i think that the reinforcements sometimes arrive from just one gang, or 1 time for one gang and 3/4 for the other (for example, 30 mine vs 30 AI, sometimes i have 20/25 spawned and they have 5/10 and vice-versa), i dont know if there's some kind of MAX spawned members for each gang when at war, my suggestion is: depending on spawnedMemberLimit, if the limit is 30 they would spawn 15 each at the start and the reinforcements would only kick in every time 1/3 of gang max members Spawned at war dies (30/2 = 15 / 3 = 5 in this example). At the cases where there's more from one Gang (30 vs 50) the respawn's from the gang with more members at war would be faster (example: 1/4 dead members instead of the usual 1/3, making more valuable having more members at war (because they will spawn more often giving you the advantage instead of just spawn 25 of the 30 max members spawned and obliterate the other gang) and it doesn't ruin the spawnedMembersLimit, you just have more homies coming to help. I have no idea how mods/scripts work, im just throwing stuff in here. Just an idea.
@lucasvinbr Nvm, i feel dumb right now. I added comments so i could find the weapons in the file if i wanted to change some values, as soon as i deleted it, done. Its working ahah.
@lucasvinbr Hey awesome mod dude! Sorry for my english.
Had alot of fun with it but one thing bugs me, since i like to start the mod with 0$ so its more hardcore, i have a hard time finding the guns i want to/can buy. I already tryed editing the ModOptions.xml file but (as i tought) its only an access file, cant change the actual format for the Weapons Upgrade menu. It's possible to assemble by class/price? (cheaper pistols first, shotguns, smgs, etc) or even submenus with each class with weapons from lower to higher cost.
@jedijosh920 Hey, love the mod, just wanna ask, why cant we earn/spend money in this mod? There's some cool mods there (DrugTraffic, Bank Robbery, etc) that would be really nice to add more stuff to do with the homies and its really sad that it cant happen. And btw can we get back to the game character? Any toughts? Cumps.
5mods on Discord
@lucasvinbr
"considering the "use reinforcements from turfs" idea, one thing that could be done would be making attacks stop being a paid thing (or keep it proportional to the amount of members employed in the war) and make each gang have a "population", a number that increases over time and decreases when members die during wars (or any time) I think that would help make the wars more meaningful. Do you think that would work? "
- That's what i said but with simple words ahah
I think attacks still need to be paid, keeping it proporcional yes, because you're investing and risking money/members when attacking, and it would keep things more interesting and sort of and "economy" system for each gang to choose what to do (focus on attacking turfs with weaker members at start or upgrading the ones they have) this way there's room for some other features that could be added for more income/extra members for example.
I agree with the population method, since reinforcements are a fixed number (1/3) based on the number of members left to spawn during a war, population would be the new "reinforcements" in this case, where more members = more reinforcements, removing the current reinforcement system.
About that growing number, what do you have in mind? Like for each # of ticks it would increase?
The way i see it, it would go only one way: When you conquer/upgrade a turf theres a min number of members you get from that turf (if lvl 0 gives you 15, lets say you start with 10 after conquer/buying/etc, being 10 the current pop value and 15 the max value for that turf), "population" variable would increase until it eaches its max (using the timetoupgrade ticks).
This would be really nice so you cant just rush to war if you have the money, you'll need the numbers too.
The problem i see with that is, if there's no other feature to grow your numbers (see below), there might not be enough for wars/defending after calling some backups in a row ahah
There's also the problem of determine from which turf that ped died.
Because of that i think population should only decrease during wars and backup-calls, and reducing it equaly by all turfs.
Example: You have 3 turfs and choose 30 members to fight, if you lose 10 members on that war they will decrease from all turfs equaly (or between the high lvl ones).(WarMembersLost/currentTurfsOwned=ValueDecreased)
"Oh, and besides the spawning adjustments, how do you think wars could be more fun?"
- Maybe add somekind of objectives instead of just kill numbers, much like the Shadow of War game where you have to capture a certain number of zones to win.
If a "Main turf" was an option, you could force gangs to only attack normal turfs and have to conquer them before attacking the main turf of that gang (that main would be alot stronger and hard) and make that one more special to conquer, with new win conditions maybe.
Extra:
Turfs provide Income, Members and Member Slots, each upgrade provides more from each.
Each turfs has its own income, number of current members and available slots, according to each lvl.
Income reduction is calculated by MTP-CTP=IncRedu, if IncRedu is 0 or higher theres no income reduction, but if its lower (CTP higher than MTP) it will reduce X$ per extra solt (Example: IncRedu is -10, each extra slot costs 100$, it will decrease income by 1000$). After a turf upgrade if MTP = CTP the redu is calculated again and there's no income reduction again.
currentTurfPopulation (CTP) - the number of members you currently have (this is the one that increases/decreases over time).
This will ONLY increase to the MTP value, then it stops until MTP increases. But it can decrease to 0 if you lose all of you're members fast enough (by war or back-up calls).
maxTurfPopulation (MTP) - number of max members you can have in that turf before you start having reduced income (also known as member slots). Only turf upgrade can change this value.
currentTurfIncome - This controls the income from the current turf, affected by turf upgrades and expansions.
Note: Population for fighting in wars is calculated from the total CTP from all turfs, not MTP (last post idea for attack options).
Defensive mode will only use the CTP of the current turf being attacked.
All the next costs money, proporcional and not decided ofc.
- "Automatic recruting system for this turf"- Here you can instantly recruit more members (fills free member slots) for that turf.
If you dont have free slots it wont work.
Usefull if you want to get members fast instead of waiting for overtime increase.
- "Expand member slots for this turf"- This will give room for more members without upgrading this turf. (Can only be used when CTP = MTP)
It gives you more slots for members, not fill them.
Note: This could have a variable of his own, because if you increase CTP it means you will have more members available instead of just slots (MTP), but MTP should only be changed with turf upgrade so this is just theorical for now. Another option is to merge AutoRecruit with this, and it seems way more simple and clean than the first one.
My final tought about this is to merge them but leave AutoRecruit, so AR only fills the free slots and Expand gives +10 CTP and fills too. If it happens to lose those 10 extra members (you cant Expand again until upgrade) you can use AR to buy them back and not have 10 empty slots costing income (since until you upgrade your turf they wont generate).
Attention!
Expand option is permanent and WILL decrease income for that turf instantly, because you'll have more slot members in that turf (CTP) than MTP allows, reducing income by a certain value (per member above MTP) because its an Expansion, not a turf upgrade.
You can only have CTP higher than MTP by 10 (so only 1 Expand in a row), this is to prevent overpopulation on low lvl turfs. You can expand again after upgrading turf and having CTP = MTP.
Example: CTP 20 MTP 20, you can Expand, now you have CTP 30 and MTP 20, you will need to upgrade before buying the next one (depending on the nr of slots that each upgrade gives).
You will only "generate" more members if CTP is lower than MTP.
Expand increases CTP +10 slots and can only be used when CTP=MTP, so you wont get those members over time, you need to use AutoRecruit or recruit them from the streets. In this scenario, you'll have 10 more members but if you lose 15 you will only get back 5, unless you upgrade your turf (increasing MTP for that turf).
To counter that income reduction you need to upgrade your turf until MTP is higher or equal to CTP.
This system lets you have up to 10 more members than the turf can allow, but at the cost of income (used for everything in the mod) and the risk of not getting back those members if you lose them before upgrading that turf.
So you can have a bigger army than you can afford. Kinda High risk-High reward stuff here.
All the values are examples and not accurate, this was just to put the idea to a test and to show how it would work (roughly). All of this would need testing and toughts about ofc.
@lucasvinbr hey, thanks for the reply!
"Currently, the mod considers the total reinforcements for each gang and sets the max spawn for each one accordingly: the gang with more reinforcements should have more spawned members."
- I see, about that i experienced some stuff, mostly one of the gangs obliterating the other one, the point of wars should be to let the player decide how strong will the attack be (therefore, Light/Medium/Large/Massive attack options) and to have fun! There's no fun in one gang just dominates, what's the point of 150+ members vs 60 if there's no equilibrium between them? It will be just stand still and pop heads ahah
The idea here is to limit the number of each gang members spawned and making reinforcements the key. You can still have that massive spawn (like 50vs50) and experience wars with they're full potencial by changing the SML value if you want, but in this case if one of the gangs have equal or less than 50 members, they all spawn and there's no reinforcements (40 members, 50 can spawn, all 40 spawn so, members left = 0/3 = 0 reinforcements).
Does the mod considers ALL the turf levels to each war? If a gang have 3 turfs, i attack one of them, do they defend with all the reinforcements combined from each turf or just the one im attacking? And if im defending?
In my last post the general idea was to replace the active Total Reinforcements for each gang calculation and replace it with the one i said.
Imagine SML 30 (Max 30 peds at the same time, so 30/2 =15 members for each gang at max on the map) your attacking, you choose Light Attack with 30 of your members vs 40 of them (30 kills to lose, 40 kills to win) when the war starts there's 15 members spawning from each gang no matter how massive the attack/defense power (number of members) is, aside backup drivers/para-peds there wont be more than that coming from respawn points at once, after that the total reinforcements for each gang is calculated based on the rest of the members, every reinforcement would be of 3 members at once spawning, so Gang 1 (your's) gets a max of 5 reinforcements (30-15=15/3=5) and Gang 2 gets 8 (40-15=25/3=8), what happens now is the war it self, you kill peds, they kill your peds etc etc, for each 3 members that die (for both sides) there's a reinforce of 3 members, for example, you lose 3 members, reinforce kicks in and spawns 3 guys (still have the 15 members max per gang and 30 total) but now you only have 4 reinforcements left instead of 5, same thing for the other gang. Now, what happens to you when you use all of you're reinforcements? Lets see, you use all of you 5, so you spawned 15 members (plus the 15 that spawned at the start, you used you're full army of 30 that you chose to attack with), so now you dont have reinforcements, and about your enemy? Well they used 5 aswell, but they still have 3 more to use so, now all you have is 15 guys (plus some drivers/para that the mod spawned for you) against 15 of them + 3 reinforcements of 3 members, this is where that +10 members from the defensive gang helps, because now the attackers have no backup and defenders still have 9 more to come help. This way makes it VITAL to upgrade members stats and choose you're battles.
"the gang with more reinforcements should have more spawned members", they still have more spawned members, but limited (by Half the SML value) so the war can be more enjoyable and each gang do his best.
The war ends the same way as before, but now you feel like you're in a war, because there's always people coming and shooting at you and not just target practice ahah
I saw at one of you're changelogs that upgrading a turf gives you more reinforcements, in this case upgrading a turf would instead rise the total number of members that each turf gives you (for example: 2 turfs, one lvl 0 another lvl 1, lvl 0 gives you 10 and lvl 1 gives 15) you have 25 members to go to war turfs and since the numbers of reinforcements is based on the number of members you will have more reinforcements aswell (thus that number advantage) but this time you feel those extra members from that turf upgrade instead of random and massive ped spawns ahah.
backup drivers and para-peds are a bless and a curse, because they can grow numbers yes, but if they die they still count for the war kills, and they spawn for both sides (i think), so the war can end before any of the gangs uses all their reinforcements.
"Hmm, during one of those wars that was a 30v30 and your gang had 25 spawned members against their 5, if your members died, do you think it would stabilize around 15 spawned members for each gang? "
- Honestly, at this moment, i dont think it can even try to stabilize ahah
But no, i think not, the mod feels like it just spawns members until it reaches the SML value and stops, regardless of how many of each gang is on the map, if AI gang loses more members first the mod could spawn (from the reinforcements) from my gang and they would have no chance, and that's "killing" the wars for me. Most of my tests with SML 30 they would just keep coming or not come at all and be an empty war with my gang sitting there waiting or 3 times AI gang members than mine.
"Disabling backup calls during wars could really help hehe, but I think one could still exploit the system by calling backups before starting a war in order to start with more members around, even if it's a 10v100 situation hehe. How do you think we could work around that? Having a "flexible" spawn limit could help, I think, but I feel it kinda goes against the idea of "limit" hehe"
- That's a tricky one. Maybe unspawn all current spawned gang members from the gangs when the war starts, but idk how that would go.
Since the wars would be more even and enjoyable that would be someone that have no intention of playing the mod, and when you capture a turf, lets say of lvl 5, if you dont have the upgrade to conquer turfs and start with it at higher than 0 there's no point in attacking with exploit, and with that exploit it would be a massive waste of money, unless they changed the values from the .xml file, and even there i dont know if its worth it, but that's on them ahah.
The point is, we can try and limit those exploits, but again, this is a mod for those that want to enjoy it, not a MP warfare between player's for turfs. That would be really fun to play ahaha. Everyone can play arround the mods limitations, even with other mods, depends if they want to play it or not at all.
That "flexible" spawn limit its the SML, you can change it to suit your needs.
Extra ideas:
War! Everyone that plays this mod wants to kill stuff, to attack and conquer turfs, so this makes War and Turf the most important features in this mod.
Turfs are everything, if you dont have money or other mods that you can play to give like 100k+ (like Bank Robbery, etc), turfs means more income, number of members availables, safe zones, etc.
About turf levels, maybe when attacking the mod gets the members from ALL of your turfs together(see bellow) for the player to choose from, but defending you should only have the number of members that this turf gives (if the turf being attack gives you 20 members you would only defend with that army) giving even more importance to upgrade turf/members, and since you're the human on the game and you only lose when you die, you can always try and bring it back. You'll lose some but 90% of the times you win turfs... Makes the mod more enjoyable this way, i think.
About the force of the attack (light/med/large/massive) i belive that attacks should be about controled turfs, if you only have 1 turf, you can only attack with you're full army (because you only have 1) but if you have more, lets say 6, you can choose how many members come to fight, so if all 6 are lvl 0 and each one gives 15 for example you would have 90 members available, you can choose from 1 turf (15), Half turfs (45) or all turfs (90), using the same cost system that its now with the current system but tweaked of course.
This way if one of those 6 turfs was lvl 5, the mod would place that turf as the "Attack with 1 turf" option as the default, because its the higher lvl turf you have, the same for the "Half turfs" option, those half turfs would be the higher lvls you have, making this more of a tactical choice between upgrade all turfs at once or focus more at one (like a main turf) and deciding if you want a more agressive or defensive playstyle.
Note: If this was active, AI gangs with fewer turfs (at the start of the mod) would need some buff at their turfs, like starting with 2 turfs at lvl 2 and gangs with more turfs have lower lvl turfs, because even with lvl 0 turfs, if you have many of them its still a pretty dam large army, you have more attack power but less defensive power (until its upgraded ofc).
Player's starting turf would be something like lvl 2 too (changeable), or there's no chance for those immersion gamers like me that start with 0 or 1000$ and a melee or 1 pistol ahah
@lucasvinbr I hope you want to develop this mod further, or this will be just another annoying post.
About the last topic, i've done some calcs and what i think it wouldn't work properly, because if there's a limit of reinforcements (and they are like a fixed number of spawned members) the gang with more members at war would run out faster of reinforcements making possible a no-end war because there's no more members to kill (i tested on paper with spawnedMemberLimit at 30 and with the 15 max spawned members from each gang).
So if we dont take the "faster reinforcement" ideia, it could be something like this:
If max reinforcements for each gang would be 1/3 of the total number of gang members left to spawn and only spawn 3 at a time, in a war of 30 vs 56, SML is 30, so each gang spawns 15 at start, 30-15=15 for G1 and 56-15=41 for G2, so 15/3=5 and 41/3=13 making max reinforce for G1 a max of 5, 3 members spawn when 3 die and for G2 a max of 13 reinforcements of 3, this way the number of members fighting will be the same number of kills need to win/lose the war, keeping the constant 15 members from each gang, more realistic and the no-end wars wouldn't be a problem. Reinforce would end the way it is right now, war ends = no more backups (except from the post-war value for winning gang). This would make Health/Armor/Accuracy from members have ALOT more impact, since a smaller gang could kill more from the big one and win even with less members and backup.
Note: In this tought the calculations are for spawned peds (from respawn points), drivers/para-peds are just "extra" and they dont count for max reinforce per gang.
spawnedMemberLimit- could be only applied to peds that appears during the war from respawn points (if this is already true ignore it)
numSpawnsReservedForCarsDuringWars- instead of min spawned cars it could be the max that spawn as an extra to help during the war, giving the player a choice if they want more or less help coming aside reinforce and if they dont mind having more peds than spawnedMemberLimit allows.
Within this ideia, you shouldn't be able to call backupdrivers/para-peds during wars (the ones that cost money from the menu) since they spawn during wars, and if its 30vs56 you shouldn't have more than that during wars (excluding the "extra" members). Well, that's another idea ahah.
Im no expert by any means, this is all just random toughts from someone that never made a mod. Im an enthusiast at this enviroment and your mod called my attention, i belive it has alot of potencial.
Sorry for the post bombardment, i'll stop now.
@lucasvinbr Np :D Btw some feedback and toughts if you want to check it out:
- I see that sometimes the AI backup drivers (from freemode and war) just stay where they are if too far from the action/player (or just can't drive at all cause they're stuck somewhere where they only needed to reverse or i drive by them and they dont turn, stuff like that), i need to shoot at them or get closer (on foot, with a car i need to stop and sometimes exit) for them to actual do something. I tryed to make it spawn closer to me but it still hapens when you're at war (mostly from AI gangs).
The same happens with peds when you're in a vehicle far from them, if i stay inside they will stay where they are but if i exit the vehicle they come running no matter how far (and since they will try and pull you off the car if they're close, makes sense they run towards you to close the gap, mostly with only melee weapons). I tested without fire arms (just melee/fists) so maybe its diferent with weapons idk.
- Some peds spawn points dont make sense in war, sometimes the respawn points (the first ones that the mod makes) from both gangs are on top of each other, literaly 5 feet away (happens alot at turfs on highways) so its just a massacre ahaha. I know you can change the spawn for you're gang, but with AI it's another story, because if they spawn too close a war can end in just a few seconds, or too far and they'll only spawn like 5/6 and stop and i need to run over my guys so they can spawn or chase the "lifeless" drivers stuck somewhere or just frozen at the middle of the road.
- About this spawn topic, there's and option where you can change the max members "alive" at the same time (spawnedMemberLimit , default 30), changing this value will spawn more/less members during the war, but not equaly between both gangs.From what i tested and saw, i think that the reinforcements sometimes arrive from just one gang, or 1 time for one gang and 3/4 for the other (for example, 30 mine vs 30 AI, sometimes i have 20/25 spawned and they have 5/10 and vice-versa), i dont know if there's some kind of MAX spawned members for each gang when at war, my suggestion is: depending on spawnedMemberLimit, if the limit is 30 they would spawn 15 each at the start and the reinforcements would only kick in every time 1/3 of gang max members Spawned at war dies (30/2 = 15 / 3 = 5 in this example). At the cases where there's more from one Gang (30 vs 50) the respawn's from the gang with more members at war would be faster (example: 1/4 dead members instead of the usual 1/3, making more valuable having more members at war (because they will spawn more often giving you the advantage instead of just spawn 25 of the 30 max members spawned and obliterate the other gang) and it doesn't ruin the spawnedMembersLimit, you just have more homies coming to help. I have no idea how mods/scripts work, im just throwing stuff in here. Just an idea.
@lucasvinbr Nvm, i feel dumb right now. I added comments so i could find the weapons in the file if i wanted to change some values, as soon as i deleted it, done. Its working ahah.
Sorry for the double
@lucasvinbr Hey awesome mod dude! Sorry for my english.
Had alot of fun with it but one thing bugs me, since i like to start the mod with 0$ so its more hardcore, i have a hard time finding the guns i want to/can buy. I already tryed editing the ModOptions.xml file but (as i tought) its only an access file, cant change the actual format for the Weapons Upgrade menu. It's possible to assemble by class/price? (cheaper pistols first, shotguns, smgs, etc) or even submenus with each class with weapons from lower to higher cost.
Thanks ;)
@jedijosh920 Hey, love the mod, just wanna ask, why cant we earn/spend money in this mod? There's some cool mods there (DrugTraffic, Bank Robbery, etc) that would be really nice to add more stuff to do with the homies and its really sad that it cant happen. And btw can we get back to the game character? Any toughts? Cumps.